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  • Pilligrimm
    Участник

    • 05 May 2016
    • 40

    #2386
    1
    Open Letter to Brother Benson Phillips from Russia
    Dear Brother Benson,
    At the outset allow me to explain why I chose to write you an open letter, rather than
    writing you privately. Originally I wanted to write you a private letter, but then I learned
    that you do not read correspondence which is perceived to be negative in content.
    Therefore, I felt to choose this way of communication, hoping that this way my concerns
    will somehow reach you.
    First of all, let me thank you for all the help and care I received from you personally. I
    still remember my time at the FTT in Moscow as the best time in my life. My present
    position is not the result of personal offenses. I was always treated with love and care.
    My present position is a truth issue.
    I would like to give you a little testimony. I came into the Lords recovery in December
    of 1992. It was a glorious experience! I was reading Brother Witness Lees book The
    Economy of God, praying over all the verses in this book, and I experienced an
    outpouring of the Holy Spirit. My heart was overwhelmed with love to the Lord. I clearly
    saw how knowledge and gifts distracted me from the Wonderful Person of Christ. It was
    like a honeymoon with Jesus. I right away left my denomination and began to attend the
    meetings of the church in Rostov. This experience happened during the break after the 1st
    term of the FTTM. Some saints from Rostov had attended the training and came back
    with burning hearts. Their testimonies set me on fire, and I felt that I should go to this
    training. This came with a price. I had just finished high school and was a freshman in the
    University. My parents were unbelievers, and they were horrified at my desire to drop the
    University and go to Moscow. My mother cried almost every day begging me not to go. I
    was unmoved, and eventually she gave in. At that time I had no idea that I might not be
    accepted for the training. Only later I heard that you had to ask Brother Lee if I could
    come. I am very thankful to Brother Lee that he accepted me for his training.
    Before the training Brother John Brooks came to visit us, and he gave messages on the
    ground of oneness. I remember how captured I was by the vision of oneness of all the
    believers. I saw that non-essential teachings, practices and ministers could not constitute
    the ground of oneness.
    My time at the FTT training in Moscow was full of enjoyment. In order to make a long
    story short, I will not go into details here. I would like to mention only one thing here.
    When I was in the training, a leading brother in Rostov through whom the church life
    there was established grew cold to the recovery. He began to speak against the training
    and against Brother Lee. He did it openly in the meetings. I was very much troubled by
    this and had fellowship about this situation with different brothers. I remember very well
    what Brother Joel Kennon told me then. He said that nobody could ever forbid me to eat
    from the tree of life. In any situation we should be positive and eat from the tree of life.
    Brother Benson, at one point I had fellowship regarding this situation with you. You told
    2
    me that I should only pray. I should not confront this brother; I should only pray. I
    followed your advice. Throughout this entire situation I did not say anything negative
    about this brother. I supported him as much as I could. All I did was I prayed for this
    brother and for the church. At the training the saints from Rostov met every Monday to
    pray for this situation. As you know, eventually that brother and the majority of the saints
    left. We basically had to have a new beginning; but this whole situation gave me a
    valuable lesson of the cross.
    Brother Benson, I admired your wisdom at that time. At that time you did not ask me to
    form a party loyal to LSM. You did not teach me to sue my brothers and sisters. At that
    time you did not teach me to insist on one publication. You taught me to respect that
    brother despite his attitude. I learned that Christ could be gained and ministered in any
    situation. I am only wondering why today you are not following your own advice you
    gave me then. I am talking about the situation in the Great Lakes area. I hear that the
    saints loyal to you sue their brothers for property, and speak negatively of their elders. I
    am wondering why wont you give them the same advice you gave me in 1993? Why
    wont you teach them not to confront the elders and only pray for them if they see
    something wrong?
    Now Id like to explain why I took this situation with Midwest so closely to my heart.
    When Brother Lee died, the trainings were conducted by the number of brothers,
    including yourself, brothers who are now known as blended/ing brothers. I was always
    positive to all the ministering brothers. But some years later I was a little bit alerted by
    how often the name of Brother Lee was mentioned in the blended brothers messages. I
    constantly heard, Brother Lee this, Brother Lee that. I did not like it because we should
    always focus on Christ, not on ministers. But I got an impression that Brother Lee was
    mentioned more than the Lord. At that time I just neglected this whole matter. I still
    trusted all the brothers very much.
    The second time I was alerted it was related to Brother Titus Chu. In 2000 I was in a
    spiritual depression. I considered my Christian life as failure. I couldnt even read the
    Bible. At this juncture I read a book by Brother Titus Chu. This book was a great help to
    me and helped me to cope with my depression. I got a feeling that this book should be
    translated into Russian. I wrote a letter to Cleveland, Ohio, and obtained their permission
    for translation. But then I heard that something was wrong with Brother Titus. I wrote a
    letter to Brother John Brooks and asked his help. He gave me a call, and basically told me
    that Brother Titus is a rich brother, but he is carrying out his own ministry. Then Brother
    John told me that to avoid rivalry we accept only the materials published by LSM. That is
    when the alarm bell rang. Previously I was taught that we should accept everything that
    gives life. I definitely got life from the book of Titus, and I could not understand why I
    should not receive his ministry. But because I trusted Brother John Brooks very much (he
    is like a father to me), I decided that I just did not understand something. I went on
    positively. And I did not consider these matters for some time. Meanwhile I was
    encouraged by the 96 lessons training. After some time my wife decided to go to the
    FTT, and we moved to Moscow. She was in the FTT, and I worked for BBD (Bible
    Book Depot, Russian branch of LSM) as a translator. That is when my doubts returned
    3
    and were intensified. I do not want to go now into details of what troubled me in
    Moscow. That is quite another subject. I would only mention three things:
    First, when I was in Moscow the one publication statement was issued (June 2005). It
    was too much for me. My spirit just could not take it. Of course, this whole idea of one
    publication is a logical implication of the one minister of the age teaching. This
    teaching I cannot agree with. In this letter I will not analyze this teaching from the
    Scripture. Much was written already. I would only give you a historical background of
    this teaching. This teaching  that in one age God has only one minister of the age 
    was first introduced by the James Taylors branch of the Exclusive Brethren. They
    considered James Taylor, Sr., their minister of the age. James Taylor was a godly man,
    and a real minister of the Lord. But when he died, he was succeeded by his son James
    Taylor, Jr., who was considered the next minister of the age. However, he was a wicked
    man: a drunkard and fornicator. When in 1970, he was caught by some in adultery, those
    saints were slandered and excommunicated. I think you are well aware that this scenario
    was almost repeated in the recovery. This is an example of a dead teaching producing
    dead fruit. How can I receive the one publication statement that was spawned by such a
    deadly teaching?
    Second, when you learned that I read an article of Nigel Tomes, you had fellowship with
    me. At that time you spoke and I listened. I was grateful that you found time to have
    fellowship with me, and I hoped that I could receive help from you. I listened attentively,
    and when I came home after the fellowship I right away took down all the main points
    and considered them carefully. I will not address them all here. I will only cover one
    point which to me is the most important. Brother Benson, you said that those who oppose
    one publication use the Bible, but with the Bible we can prove anything. Then you shared
    about life and death, that we should run away from death. And the rest of your fellowship
    was once again Brother Lee this and Brother Lee that. Dear Benson, to say that we can
    prove anything by the Bible and therefore should use our life/death feeling as our
    standard is a serious error and deception. That is something I would expect to hear from a
    Roman Catholic priest. One of the main achievements of Reformation was Sola
    Scriptura (Only Scripture). To make the feeling of life and death our standard apart from
    Scripture is very dangerous. Because it is purely subjective, it can lead to serious spiritual
    deception. This feeling can easily be manipulated. If you teach the saints that anything
    that does not come from LSM is divisive, of course, they will feel death, when they see
    other books. However, this feeling comes not from spirit, but from a deceived mind. I am
    sorry, but Brother Lee said is not enough for me. I should see if it is based on the Bible.
    Brother Lee is not infallible. His teachings are not canonized. He is not above the Bible;
    he is not even equal to it. No matter how much we respect a minister of the Lord, he
    should not be above scrutiny. The noble people of Berea knew this very well (Acts
    17:11), and they were not even saved! The Bible commends them for this.
    Third, as you know I was in Anaheim at the Crystallization-Study of Gods Building
    training (January 2006). At this training the most shocking experience to me was not the
    acting God thing; it was your message about the destroyers of Gods building.
    Especially, your example when you picked on a brother and asked him what he would do,
    4
    if his friend is affected by death. You said words to the effect that he should not try to
    rescue him. He should stay away from him and only pray. Dear Benson, your words were
    so cruel. Do you think it is honorable for the servant of the Lord to use scare tactics? I
    right away understood everything. If the saints would THINK that I am affected by death,
    thats it. Im done for. Henceforth nobody will speak to me. Brother Benson, dont you
    see what kind of bondage your words impose upon the saints? Why should the saints be
    in fear lest someone would think that they are affected by death? Is this the glorious
    salvation bought for us by the precious blood of the Lamb? I do not think so. I rather
    think that it is a different gospel.
    Dear Benson, when I came to the recovery I was caught by the vision of Christ and the
    Church. I was attracted by the brothers ministry concerning oneness with all the genuine
    believers. I was taught that non-essential teachings, names and people should not
    constitute our ground of oneness. However, what I see now is that you are leading the
    churches into the most exclusive and sectarian way I have ever seen. I do not want to be a
    part of it. That was the reason why I resigned from BBD. That is why I cannot continue
    to meet with the LSM churches. Yes, I deliberately call them LSM churches. Despite
    all the denials, that is what they are. I have not forsaken the saints. I still love them. I
    have no negative feelings toward them. I have no personal offenses. I appreciate and
    treasure all the positive things I received from the saints. However, I cannot be a part of
    the sectarian system promoted by you. I know that I will not be received by any of the
    LSM churches with my present views. Based upon your current teachings, it seems it is
    not enough for you that I love the Lord and want to follow Him. You want to bind me
    with the yoke of unscriptural teachings, like one publication and one minister of the
    age. I am sorry, but my conscience does not allow this.
    Dear Benson, I wrote some strong words. I was reluctant to do it, since you are much
    older than I. However, if I really love you, I should speak truth to you. I want to tell you
    that I love you and pray for your wellbeing.
    May the Lord bless you richly,
    Sergei Kuznetsov
    a simple brother from Russia

    Комментарий

    • valohan
      Отключен

      • 23 December 2009
      • 8936

      #2387
      Сообщение от Pilligrimm
      1
      Open Letter to Brother Benson Phillips from Russia
      жаль что не на русском.

      Комментарий

      • vitalij1
        Участник

        • 14 June 2016
        • 435

        #2388
        Сообщение от valohan
        жаль что не на русском.
        Я браузерный переводчик использовал, можно смысл понять.

        Комментарий

        • Pilligrimm
          Участник

          • 05 May 2016
          • 40

          #2389
          Да, можно было и так, но смысл примерно в следующем. Тот самый «простой брат из России», Сергей Кузнецов, побывав ведущим или суперведущим братом, вдоволь наигравшись в христианство решил отойти от всеобемлющепоглащающей власти товарища Ли и его последователей. И что интересно, написал человек письмо без каких-либо жутко надвигающихся обвинений и домыслов. Просто поблагодарил за то, что было, конкретно указал, причину ухода, таки ушел, пожелав благословления. В ответ, остервенелое письмо товарищей из всея Москвы, мол, подлец, негодяй, враг народа восстановленческого! Как посмел винтик западного потока отойти от назначенной резьбы. Не понятно это все, не понятно

          Комментарий

          • vitalij1
            Участник

            • 14 June 2016
            • 435

            #2390
            Сообщение от Pilligrimm
            Да, можно было и так, но смысл примерно в следующем. Тот самый «простой брат из России», Сергей Кузнецов, побывав ведущим или суперведущим братом, вдоволь наигравшись в христианство решил отойти от всеобемлющепоглащающей власти товарища Ли и его последователей. И что интересно, написал человек письмо без каких-либо жутко надвигающихся обвинений и домыслов. Просто поблагодарил за то, что было, конкретно указал, причину ухода, таки ушел, пожелав благословления. В ответ, остервенелое письмо товарищей из всея Москвы, мол, подлец, негодяй, враг народа восстановленческого! Как посмел винтик западного потока отойти от назначенной резьбы. Не понятно это все, не понятно
            Тут навскидку не разберешься. Как минимум надо быть в восстановленнии, чтобы видеть его деградацию. Тема вобще не для новичков и не для посторонних.

            Комментарий

            • antipa21
              JESUS IS LORD

              • 23 August 2009
              • 15259

              #2391
              Сообщение от valohan
              Ну ты сам то, глаза разуй , посмотри на отрывок Мф.18: 15-20 и посчитай.
              Два проблемных, плюс один или двое для свидетельства, плюс к этим трём четырём ещё святые, о которых сказано "скажи церкви"
              Я просто знаю ход твоих хитрым мыслей, и твои попытки оправдать перед Богом свой бунт в отношении братьев .
              Ты в собственных глазах считаешь себя и ещё кого-то (согласного с твоим бунтом) церковью.
              Но вы не церковь, уймись, вы просто два члена церкви .(в лучшем случае).
              А в худшем - два отпавших члена
              А на каком основании ты объединил Мф18:15-17 и Мф.18:18-20? Хочу тебе напомнить, что в оригинале нет ни глав, нет ни циферок различных стихов, нет и правописания с большой буквы или с маленькой. Просто объясни мне на каком основании ты всё это объединил.
              https://www.evangelie.eu/forum/entry...15302&bt=25900




              Комментарий

              • antipa21
                JESUS IS LORD

                • 23 August 2009
                • 15259

                #2392
                Сообщение от vitalij1
                Тут навскидку не разберешься. Как минимум надо быть в восстановленнии, чтобы видеть его деградацию. Тема вобще не для новичков и не для посторонних.
                Да просто надо знать простую истину, что болезнь любого христианского течения и каждого верующего заключается в том, что «Теория без практики мертва и бесплодна, практика без теории бесполезна и пагубна».
                https://www.evangelie.eu/forum/entry...15302&bt=25900




                Комментарий

                • vitalij1
                  Участник

                  • 14 June 2016
                  • 435

                  #2393
                  Сообщение от antipa21
                  Да просто надо знать простую истину, что болезнь любого христианского течения и каждого верующего заключается в том, что «Теория без практики мертва и бесплодна, практика без теории бесполезна и пагубна».
                  Еще Серафим Саровский чудотворец в ответ на вопрос о сути христианства, заданый одним набожным купцом ,ответил : Самое главное в христианстве, есть стяжание благодати Святого Духа. И сегодня нет задачи выше . Прежде всего надо быть в духе и искать там Господа -Духа. Все остальное вторично происходит от союза Бога и человека в слитом Духе, и познание ,и хождение ,и церковная жизнь, и работа,и подвиги. Духовность это синоним божественности. Раздача Бога в людей, вот сила и смысл благой вести, а что сверх того - то от лукавого. Бог стал человеком, чтобы человек стал Богом по жизни и природе,но не в божестве.

                  Комментарий

                  • valohan
                    Отключен

                    • 23 December 2009
                    • 8936

                    #2394
                    Сообщение от antipa21
                    А на каком основании ты объединил Мф18:15-17 и Мф.18:18-20? Хочу тебе напомнить, что в оригинале нет ни глав, нет ни циферок различных стихов, нет и правописания с большой буквы или с маленькой. Просто объясни мне на каком основании ты всё это объединил.
                    Гена, не умничай,не тот случай.
                    Отрывок , доказывающий, что двое - это не церковь , в принципе заканчивается на стихе 17.
                    Хотя в принципе они соединены.(не буду объяснять почему, пока)
                    Но двое или трое дальше, это потому, что любое дело один делать не может.
                    Это принцип, установленный Господом.
                    Двое - хорошо, трое - лучше.
                    Но это ещё не церковь.

                    Комментарий

                    • antipa21
                      JESUS IS LORD

                      • 23 August 2009
                      • 15259

                      #2395
                      Сообщение от valohan
                      Но это ещё не церковь.
                      Так сколько нужно человек, чтобы это была церковь? Если в глухой сибирской деревушке, где всего десять домов, два мужика собираются для изучения слова и молитвы, то кто они, церковь или бродяги?

                      Я с таким же успехом могу заявить, что ты находишься не в поместной церкви, а просто в христианской группе, потому как у вас нет рукоположенного пастыря (пресвитера, старейшины) и нет дьяконов.
                      https://www.evangelie.eu/forum/entry...15302&bt=25900




                      Комментарий

                      • valohan
                        Отключен

                        • 23 December 2009
                        • 8936

                        #2396
                        Сообщение от antipa21
                        Так сколько нужно человек, чтобы это была церковь? Если в глухой сибирской деревушке, где всего десять домов, два мужика собираются для изучения слова и молитвы, то кто они, церковь или бродяги?
                        Два столба на входе в скинию, это скиния ?

                        Сообщение от antipa21
                        Я с таким же успехом могу заявить, что ты находишься не в поместной церкви, а просто в христианской группе, потому как у вас нет рукоположенного пастыря (пресвитера, старейшины) и нет дьяконов.
                        Ты конечно можешь , это ведь ТЫ !!!

                        Комментарий

                        • Pinochet
                          Hunter

                          • 24 January 2017
                          • 3510

                          #2397
                          "Не спорьте девочки"(С)
                          "
                          Многие христиане думают, что если два-три человека собраны в имя Господа и если у них есть Его присутствие, то они являются церковью и среди них есть действительность церкви. Однако если вы внимательно прочитаете эти стихи, то вы увидите, что упомянутые в стихе 20 два-три человека не являются церковью. Это те самые двое или трое, о которых говорится в стихе 16. Они могут быть собраны в имя Господа, однако они не являются церковью, поскольку, если возникает какая-то проблема, они должны сказать о ней церкви (ст. 17). Если бы эти двое или трое были церковью, то им не нужно было бы обращаться с этой проблемой к церкви. То, что они должны «сказать церкви», доказывает, что они являются не церковью, а частью церкви. Они принадлежат к церкви и являются членами церкви, но они не являются церковью.
                          Не думайте, что если два-три человека собраны в имя Господа и у них есть присутствие Господа, то это и есть церковь. Если мы так думаем, то церковь, состоящая из трёхсот членов, может разделиться на сто церквей и каждые два-три брата будут считать себя церковью. Какая возникла бы путаница! Два-три человека могут быть собраны в имя Господа и Господь может действительно быть посреди них, но это не означает, что они являются церковью."(С)
                          продай одежду свою и купи меч
                          (Лук.22:36)

                          Комментарий

                          • antipa21
                            JESUS IS LORD

                            • 23 August 2009
                            • 15259

                            #2398
                            Сообщение от valohan
                            Два столба на входе в скинию, это скиния ?
                            А разве одна поместная церковь - это вся Церковь?
                            https://www.evangelie.eu/forum/entry...15302&bt=25900




                            Комментарий

                            • antipa21
                              JESUS IS LORD

                              • 23 August 2009
                              • 15259

                              #2399
                              Сообщение от valohan
                              Ты конечно можешь , это ведь ТЫ !!!
                              Я по крайней мере могу сослаться на авторитет Ч. И. Скоуфилда. В Его Библии с примечаниями к стихам Мат.18:15-19 находится подзаголовок: Дисциплина в будущей Церкви, а к стиху 20 подзаголовок: Простейшая форма поместной церкви, далее к стихам 21-35 подзаголовок: Закон прощения (Лук.17:3-4).

                              А ты Володя укажи мне место из Восстановительного перевода, где брат Ли утверждает обратное?

                              Кстати Скоуфилд был из Братиев и брат Ли долгое время находился с Братиями!
                              https://www.evangelie.eu/forum/entry...15302&bt=25900




                              Комментарий

                              • valohan
                                Отключен

                                • 23 December 2009
                                • 8936

                                #2400
                                Сообщение от antipa21
                                А разве одна поместная церковь - это вся Церковь?
                                А где и когда было сказано что одна поместная церковь - это вся Церковь?

                                Комментарий

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