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Я говорю лишь то, что думаю на самом деле, оцениваю то, что вижу и делюсь тем впечатлением, которое вы производите. Если это вам не нравится, то оно - не обязательно ложь, а скорее правда, которую вам бы хотелось считать ложью. В конце концов, вы даже не пытались доказать, что я не прав. Христу я, как вы понимаете, не противлюсь, а лишь считаю, что ваши слова - полное извращение Его учения. Указывать будетет своей жене и детям, а не Церкви Иисуса Христа, а свои взаимоотношения с Богом я, с вашего разрешения, я буду строить без вашего участия.
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Si Deus Nobiscum quis contra nos -
дублирование сообщенияSi Deus Nobiscum quis contra nosКомментарий
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Мне не важно знать какое впечатление произвожу я, потому что не обо мне эта тема, и не во мне проблема, а в вашей церкви, именующей себя Церковью Иисуса Христа, но таковой не являющейся ввиду приведенных мной слов Иисуса Христа из Книги Мормона. Исходя же из Его слов с явной очевидностью следует, что ваша церковь не основана на Его камне. Сделайте же плод, достойный покаяния, исправьте пути Господу к вашему сердцу. Вам ведь нечего возразить против слов Христа, приведенных в КМ. И зачем тогда вы пытаетесь возражать мне? Вы возводите на меня клевету - буд-то бы я извращаю полностью учение Господа. Клевета даже в миру уголовно наказуема, не говоря уже о Божьем Суде.
Вам и вашей церкви нужно покаяться - это главное. Клеветнические же, несправедливые слова в мой адрес я вам прощаю. Но все же вынужден предупредить вас, что бы в следующий раз вы не повторяли свои ошибки, не переходили на личность оппонента и не давали ему своих субъективных оценок.Комментарий
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Церковь вам не создаёт никаких проблем. И никаки проблем у неё нет, а если вам что-то кажется, то ответы на ваши выпады вам были даны неоднократно, можно было бы и понять уже.
Потому что вы не понимаете доктрины Иисуса Христа и проповедуете фарисейство.И зачем тогда вы пытаетесь возражать мне?
Докажите, что это клевета. А ещё подайте в суд на ЦИХСПД, что она неправильно понимает Книгу Мормона, хоть настроение судьям поднимите.Вы возводите на меня клевету - буд-то бы я извращаю полностью учение Господа. Клевета даже в миру уголовно наказуема, не говоря уже о Божьем Суде.
Не я это начал. Вам же ответили на ваши нападки. Вы знаете нашу позицию, и знаете, что она не изменится, зачем разводить флуд?что бы в следующий раз вы не повторяли свои ошибки, не переходили на личность оппонента и не давали ему своих субъективных оценок.Si Deus Nobiscum quis contra nosКомментарий
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Сегодня вечером продолжу публикацию 2-й главы чудесной и поучительной книги The Changing World of Mormonism. Книга настолько интересна по содержанию и содержащимся в ней фактам, что я прочитал её буквально за день. Побольше бы таких авторов! Необходимо порекомендовать издательству Deseret Book Company издать эту книгу миллионным тиражом на разных языках и разослать в приходы ЦИХСПД по всему миру для проведения религиозного ликбеза...
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В принципе, лично я не делаю ударение на получении "чувства", "ощущения", "огня", - это всё может быть душевным обманом сатаны. Духовное чувство отличается от душевного тем, что оно имеет подтверждение в Библии.
Итак, рождение свыше, - это единый момент в жизни христианина, когда смерть сменяется на жизнь, когда Дух Святой сливается с духом человека и человек получает в свой дух Жизнь вечную, т.е. жизнь Божью, которая есть Христос в нас. - это получение Духа внутрь, это - приобретение второй природы - вдобавок к природе человеческой мы получаем природу Божественную.
После получения дара Духа Святого (возрождение) - человек начинает быть способным слышать голос Пастыря-Христа , узнавать Его голос и отличать от других голосов. С этого и начинается Путь христианина, его осознание величия и суверенитета Триединого Бога, почитание Христа за Его пролитую Кровь и за оправдание пред Отцом. И только после получения Духа человек способен почитать себя мёртвым для Христа, духом побеждать дела плоти, жить в надежде и быть святым в Христе.
Скажите, вы можете про себя сказать так, как написано в Библии : Христос во мне. ??? Христос в вас?Что бы познать Его, и силу воскресения Его, и участие в страданиях Его, сообразуясь смерти Его, чтобы достигнуть воскресения мертвых. (Фил.3:10-11)Комментарий
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Спасибо. Однако, брат - не перехвали меня... Хвалим Христа, Который есть ВСЁ во всём - им стоим и движемся и существуем.
Помнишь, у Павла есть хорошее выражение "Обрезание и необрезание - ничто...". Так вот. Любой диспут на тему любой пары сравнений (даже диаметрально как бы противоположных друг другу, как например "обрезание-необрезание", "Кальвин-Арминий" , "Фокин-нефокин") - не имеет веса в глазах Отца, если у нас нет самого ГЛАВНОГО - Христа в нас. Христос в нас? Аминь! Едем в аспекте созидания Тела - дальше, к почести вышнего звания во Христе Иисусе. Как только злые духи похищают у верующих то, что мы называем Христоцентризмом, - всё становиться тщетою , ибо без Христоцентризма мы как медузы безхребетные, - не смотря на умение много и умно ( я про себя ) говорить. О Господь Иисус! Мы любим тебя! Ты возлюбил нас прежде, чем мы возлюбили Тебя! Ты привлёк нас к Себе и открыл нам Отца, - слава Тебе и поклонение! А теперь делай нас Твоими учениками, в коих реализовывается истинное сыновство Богу и братство Тебе, Иисус Христос!
Что-то меня понесло... но что есть то есть, слов молитвы стирать не буду.Что бы познать Его, и силу воскресения Его, и участие в страданиях Его, сообразуясь смерти Его, чтобы достигнуть воскресения мертвых. (Фил.3:10-11)Комментарий
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Other important changes concerning the Word of Wisdom were made in Joseph Smith's History. At one time Joseph Smith encouraged some "brethren" to break the "Word of Wisdom": "It was reported to me that some of the brethren had been drinking whisky that day in violation of the Word of Wisdom.
"I called the brethren in and investigated the case, and was satisfied that no evil had been done, and gave them a couple of dollars, with directions to replenish the bottle to stimulate them in the fatigues of their sleepless journey" (Millennial Star, vol. 21, p.283).
When this was reprinted in the History of the Church, (vol. 5, p.450), the twenty-three italicized words were deleted without any indication.
Another important change was made in the History of the Church under the date of June 27, 1844the day of Joseph Smith's death. In the version that was first published, Joseph Smith recommended that Apostle Willard Richards use a pipe and tobacco to settle his stomach: "Dr. Richards was taken sick, when Joseph said, 'Brother Markham,... go and get the Doctor a pipe and some tobacco to settle his stomach,' and Markham went out for them. When he had got the pipe and tobacco, and was returning to jail,..." (Millennial Star, vol. 24, p.471).
This has been changed to read as follows: "Dr. Richards was taken sick, when Joseph said, 'Brother Markham,... go and get the doctor something he needs to settle his stomach,' and Markham went out for medicine. When he had got the remedies desired, and was returning to jail,..." (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.614).
Notice that the Mormon historians tried to make it appear that Joseph Smith was recommending "medicine" rather than "a pipe and some tobacco." It would appear from the reference as it was first published that Apostle Richards was accustomed to the use of tobacco, for tobacco would certainly not settle the stomach unless a person was accustomed to its use.
At any rate, recent Mormon leaders have been very embarrassed about the early leaders' disregard for the Word of Wisdom and they have made several important changes in the History of the Church and other publications to cover up this change in policy.
In another chapter we will show that thousands of important changes were made in Joseph Smith's History of the Church and that over sixty percent of this history was compiled after Smith's death. This fact is very important because Mormon leaders have maintained that it was finished before Joseph Smith's death and that it has never been changed or tampered with. If any legal document had been changed in the same way that the History of the Church has, someone would be in serious trouble.
Suppression and Book-Burning
In the year 1855 the Mormon Apostle Parley P. Pratt published a book entitled Key to the Science of Theology. In 1965, the Mormon-owned Deseret Book Company printed the "Ninth Edition" of this book. We have compared the 1965 reprint with the original 1855 edition and find that many important changes have been made. Hundreds of words concerning the doctrine of polygamy have been deleted without any indication. Many of Apostle Pratt's statements concerning the Godhead were changed or deleted without any indication.
Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Smith, wrote a book, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith, which was published by Apostle Orson Pratt in 1853. By the year 1865, however, Brigham Young began to frown upon this book. The first presidency of the church ordered that the book "should be gathered up and destroyed, so that no copies should be left" (Latter-Day Saint's Millennial Star, vol. 27, pp.657-58).
Later Brigham Young ordered a "committee of revision" to go through Lucy Smith's book and change it to meet with his approval. Subsequently, a new edition was published by the church. In comparing the first edition with the edition printed in 1954, we have found that 2,035 words were added, deleted or changed without any indication.
Censorship seems to be a very important thing in the Mormon church. It is apparently felt that more converts can be won to the church with a bogus history than with a factual one.
For many years the Mormon church has encouraged the destruction of publications that are critical of Joseph Smith or the church. The Mormon-owned Deseret News carried an article in 1953 in which tacit approval seems to be given to book burning:
Good-natured Sven A. Wiman can manage a cautious grin when his married daughter relates...how when he returned home each evening from his part-time employment in various used book stores throughout Sweden he would produce an anti-Mormon book and then proceed to burn it. Sweden, you learn, has literally no end of anti-Church books, and Elder Wiman set himself up as a one-man cleanup committee to destroy as many of these diatribes against the Church as possible (Deseret News, Church Section, May 16, 1953, p.10).Комментарий
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Абсолютно согласен! Слава Иисусу Христу, нашему Господу и Спасителю! Благодарю Тебя, Боже, за Слово Твоё, Библию, данную нам на все времена и достаточную для нашего спасения. Ибо в ней Ты сказал всё, что имел сказать падшему человечеству, дабы мы, читая её пришли к познанию истины и обрели спасение, дарованное нам ценой пролитой драгоценной крови Христовой на кресте Голгофы. Аминь!
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In 1965 we were visited by a student from Brigham Young University who had recently completed a mission for the Mormon church in Texas. He related that while on his mission he was instructed to see that books critical of the Mormon church were removed from libraries. He said that he was told to take a set of new Mormon booksfurnished by the churchto each library and offer them in exchange for their old books dealing with Mormonism. He said that the project was very effective in Texas, and that many of the critical books were removed from the libraries by this method. That such a project was actually carried out by some Mormon missionaries has now been verified by the Mormon writer Samuel W. Taylor. He stated:
...I wonder how many good-will tours by the Tabernacle Choir would be required to repair the damage done to the Mormon image when Playboy, with its enormous circulation and impact on young people, published the fact that Mormon missionaries were engaged in a campaign of book-burning? The item was a letter from a librarian of Northampton, Mass., Lawrence Wikander, published first in the American Library Association's Newsletter on Intellectual Freedom, May, 1963,...Wikander told of two Elders arriving at his library to inspect the index of Mormon material. They offered a list of "more up-to-date material" and after delivering it made the following proposition:
"Now that we had these books which told the truth about their religion, undoubtedly we would like to discard other books in the library which told lies about the Mormon Church. Other libraries, they said, had been glad to have this pointed out to them."
Following the expose...a friend of mine tried to find out how extensive the missionary book-burning campaign had been. A number of returned missionaries from both domestic and foreign missions admitted that they had participated in it, but data as to when and how and by whom the project had been originated was, understandably, unavailable.
Self-appointed Comstocks among us have for years been dedicated to the unholy quest of seeking out and destroying books considered unfavorable.... My brother Raymond was approached by a zealot offering a number of rare Mormon books bearing library stamps; the devout saint blandly admitted stealing them to protect the public, but said he was sure that Raymond, would not be harmed (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1967, p.26).
Because of the fact that many church policies and doctrines have changed, and since many changes were made in the vital records of the church before they were published, it became necessary for the Mormon leaders to hide these records from members of the church. In 1961 we were denied access to Joseph Smith's diaries and a number of other documents which were very important to our research. Even the most faithful Mormon scholars were often refused access to vital documents. Dr. Hugh Nibley, of Brigham Young University, was "refused" access to his great-grandfather's journal (see MormonismShadow or Reality? pp.11-12). Ralph W. Hansen, formerly manuscript librarian for the Brigham Young University, also complained of "the relative inaccessibility to scholars of the files of the Church Historian's Office" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1966, p.157).
After we were denied access to church records in 1961 we began a campaign to force the Mormon leaders to make these documents available. We felt that the documents belonged to the Mormon people and should be published so that all could read them. Many people criticized us saying that our efforts would only backfire and make the Mormon leaders even more determined in their policy of suppression. We hoped, however, that many members of the church would join with us in an effort to force the church historian's office to release the documents.
Although it has taken a long time, it now appears that this campaign has not been in vain. After Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought began publication in 1966, a number of Mormon writers began openly to denounce their church's policy of suppressing the records. Joseph Fielding Smith, who was church historian at the time, had been responsible for suppressing the records for many years. When, in 1970, he became the tenth president of the church, he turned the church historian's office over to Apostle Howard W. Hunter. This did not satisfy some of the more open-minded Mormons, who by this time had become very aroused over the policy of suppression. Sometime after Howard's appointment, a group of Mormon scholars presented the Mormon leaders with a list of suggestions on how they should run the historian's office. They wanted a trained historian to be appointed as church historian. They also wanted the records to be made available to scholars and for the church itself to start printing the rare documents.Комментарий
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When we heard of these requests we could not see how the church leaders could possibly comply with them without undermining the entire foundation of the church. Take, for instance, the idea of appointing a qualified historian. A true historian, if he were honest with himself, could never approve of the methods used by Joseph Fielding Smith and other church historians in the past. Besides, it had become traditional for a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to fill this position. It seemed very unlikely that the church would appoint a trained historian. But on January 15, 1972 we were surprised to read the following in the Salt Lake Tribune: "Dr. Leonard J. Arrington, noted Utah educator and author, has been named historian of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...." The thing that made the appointment of Dr. Arrington most surprising, however, was that he had been critical of the church leader's policy of suppressing the documents. Writing in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Spring 1966, p.26), Dr. Arrington stated: "it is unfortunate for the cause of Mormon history that the Church Historian's Library, which is in the possession of virtually all of the diaries of leading Mormons, has not seen fit to publish these diaries or to permit qualified historians to use them without restriction."
Since Dr. Arrington's appointment, the church historical department has been more open to researchers. Nevertheless, the Mormon leaders are still not making all the documents available. For instance, a Mormon scholar told us that the journal of George Q. Cannon may never be made available because it contains so much revealing material concerning the secret Council of 50. Also, the church has still "not seen fit to publish" the diaries of Joseph Smith and other leading Mormons. We can only hope that the Mormon people will continue to exert pressure until the diaries are printed and all of the records made available to the public.Комментарий
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CHANGES IN THE REVELATIONS
Chapter 3
Mormon Apostle John A. Widtsoe dogmatically stated: "The Doctrine and Covenants is a compilation of the revelations received by Joseph Smith...
"The book itself is a witness for the truth of the Prophet's claims.... Enemies of the Church have rather carefully avoided the discussion of this book. They have been afraid of it" (Joseph SmithSeeker After Truth, 1951, pp.251, 254).
Contrary to Apostle Widtsoe's statement, anti-Mormon writers have not been afraid to discuss the Doctrine and Covenants. In fact, they have made some rather serious charges concerning it. The most serious charge, we feel, is that the revelations found in the Doctrine and Covenants have been changed. Some Mormon writers have admitted that changes were made. For instance, the Mormon historian B. H. Roberts admitted that paragraphs were added to the revelations: "...Some of the early revelations first published in the 'Book of Commandments,' in 1833, were revised by the Prophet himself in the way of correcting errors made by the scribes and publishers; and some additional clauses were inserted...and paragraphs added to make the principles or instructions apply to officers not in the Church at the time some of the earlier revelations were given" (History of the Church, vol. 1, p.173).
In a thesis written at Brigham Young University, John William Fitzgerald stated: "Differences in wording and differences in wording that change the meaning have occurred in certain sections that appeared first in A Book of Commandments published in 1833 and that appeared later in The Doctrine and Covenants published in 1835" ("A Study of the Doctrine and Covenants," Master's thesis, BYU, 1940, p.329).
In another thesis written at the Brigham Young University, Melvin J. Petersen acknowledged: "Many words were added to the revelations in order to more clearly state what Joseph Smith intended to write.... Many times phrases were added to increase the ability of the reader to get the meaning of the verse" ("A Study of the Nature of and Significance of the Changes in the Revelations as Found in a Comparison of the Book of Commandments and Subsequent Editions of the Doctrine and Covenants," Master's thesis, BYU, 1955, typed copy, p.147).
On pages 162 and 163 of the same thesis, Mr. Petersen wrote: "...Joseph Smith's language, as found in the revelations credited to him, needed correcting. There were many grammatical errors in the revelations he first published.... Joseph Smith in revising the first published commandments, found many of them needed clarification; therefore he enlarged upon them in order that the meaning might be more easily discerned. Certain omissions were made when unnecessary material was deleted from the revelations; also incidents that were past and of no significance except to a few."
On page 140 of the same thesis, Melvin J. Petersen said: "In the 1835 edition, Section thirty-two, verse three was added in the place of verses five and six. Why such a change? Joseph Smith, while reviewing the revelations, was dissatisfied with the wording of verses five and six in portraying the concept he had received, and therefore he omitted verses five and six of Chapter four and rewrote in their place verse three of the 1835 edition which is identical with Section five, verse nineteen of the present 1981 edition.
"In chapter forty-four of the Book of Commandments (Section forty-two, 1981 edition) the last three verses were left off."
While there have been a few Mormon writers who have been willing to admit that Joseph Smith's revelations have been changed, many have not been that honest. Mormon Apostle John A. Widtsoe said that the revelations "have remained unchanged. There has been no tampering with God's word" (Joseph SmithSeeker After Truth, p.119).
Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth president, said that "there was no need for eliminating, changing, or adjusting any part to make it fit; but each new revelation on doctrine and priesthood fitted in its place perfectly to complete the whole structure, as it had been prepared by the Master Builder" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.170).
Book of Commandments
To properly understand the changes that have been made in the revelations we must understand the history of the Doctrine and Covenants.
In 1833 the Mormon church published the revelations that had been given to the church by Joseph Smith in a book entitled Book of Commandments. The Mormon writer William E. Berrett explains: "In the latter part of 1831, it was decided by a council of Church leaders to compile the revelations concerning the origin of the Church and its organization. The collection was to be called theКомментарий
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'Book of Commandments.'... Joseph Smith received a revelation which was made the preface for the new volume and is now Section 1 of the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. In this preface we read: 'Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful....
"After accepting the collection as scripture it was voted to print 10,000 copies" (The Restored Church, 1956, pp.138-39).
The church was unable to finish the printing of the Book of Commandments as they had planned because the printing press was destroyed by a mob. In 1835 the revelations were printed again, and the name of the book was changed to the Doctrine and Covenants. New revelations were added to this book and many of the previous revelations were revised. In modern editions of the Doctrine and Covenants we find the following on the page just after the title page:
"Certain parts were issued at Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, in 1833, under the title, Book of Commandments for the Government of the Church of Christ.
"An enlarged compilation was issued at Kirtland, Ohio, in 1835, under the title, Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter-day Saints."
The exact number of Book of Commandments salvaged before the mob destroyed the printing press is not known. RLDS* Church Historian Richard P. Howard thinks there may have been "several hundred at least":
...the typesetting for the Book of Commandments had progressed through five large galley-proof sheets, each containing thirty-two pages (sixteen printed on either side of each sheet) or a total of 160 pages including the title page.... The typesetting on the Book of Commandments was interrupted,... by the mob depredations committed against the church...
Church members managed to salvage a small number of sets of the five galley sheets already printed and later had them bound and distributed. It is impossible to determine the precise number of copies of the unfinished Book of Commandments distributed in this way, but there must have been several hundred at least, since a number of references to the Book of Commandments were made in the writings of church leaders of that period (Restoration Scriptures, Independence, Mo., 1969, p.200).
David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon, said that the "revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments correctly....just exactly as they were arranged by Brother Joseph and the others. And when the Book of Commandments was printed, Joseph and the church received it as being printed correctly" (An Address To All Believers In Christ, p.56).
That the church approved of the Book of Commandments and used it from 1833 until 1835 can be seen from a letter written by the leaders of the Church in Missouri in July, 1834. In this letter it was stated: "It will be seen by reference to the Book of Commandments, page 135, that the Lord has said... 'Let no man break the laws of the land...' " (History of the Church, vol. 2, p.129).
In the same letter outsiders were advised to "examine the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Commandments..." (p.133).
David Whitmer says that "Joseph and the brethren" received the Book of Commandments "at first as being printed correctly, but they soon decided to print the Doctrine and Covenants" (An Address to Believers in the Book of Mormon, p.5). The Doctrine and Covenants was printed in the year 1835. Since the same revelations that were published in the Book of Commandments were put into the first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, one would expect them to read exactly the same as when they were first published. This is not the case, however, and David Whitmer objected to what was done:
Some of the revelations as they now appear in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants have been changed and added to. Some of the changes being of the greatest importance as the meaning is entirely changed on some very important matters; as if the Lord had changed his mind a few years after he give [sic] the revelations, and after having commanded his servants (as they claim) to print them in the "Book of Commandments;" and after giving his servants a revelation, being a preface unto His Book of Commandments, which says: "Behold this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the Book of Commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, oh inhabitants of the earth." Also in this preface, "Behold I am God, and have spoken it; These commandments are of me." "Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful." The revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments correctly! This I know,... Joseph and the church received it as being printed correctly. This I know. But in the winter of 1834 they saw that some of the revelations in the Book of Commandments had to be changed, because the heads of the church had gone too far, and had done things in which they had already gone ahead ofКомментарий
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