Поговорим о прозелитизме.

[Николай]

ремарка к прозеолитизму
Как-то на заре перестроечного пробуждения было заседание всех глав церквей. Православный иерарх сказал о населении страны: "Это наши люди, хоть они в церкви 3 раза за жизнь бывают (крещение, венчание, похороны)."

Протестантский на это заявил, что, мол, мы ваших людей мы не трогаем, мы евангелизируем ГРЕШНИКОВ

[Faith]

Odessa

Раз просили из Библии, придется ознакомиться
Я думаю, что канадцу на английском сподручнее

The New Testament says very little about the exact procedures for placing someone into, or removing someone from, the office of the public ministry (or any other offices, for that matter). Nevertheless, some principles may be drawn from information given in certain narratives of the New Testament.
In Matthew 10 and Luke 9 Jesus commissions his disciples to a limited sphere of serviceinitially among the Jews in Palestine but with implications for their later ministrythough nothing more specific is said.3 This call anticipates a commission of the twelve disciples with an expanded authority that proved to be unlimited in scope and not bound by time. At the end of Matthew Jesus commissions them to make disciples of all nations (28:16-20).4 In the Gospel of John Jesus establishes the ministry after his resurrection by breathing on his disciples to give them authority to forgive and retain sins (20:19-23). Though few specifics are given in these passages from the gospels regarding the call, the Lutheran Confessions use them and other references as a scriptural basis for the establishment of the pastoral office.
In Acts it is clear that the disciples served in their office as apostles until death. Acts also reveals that the apostles served the proclamation of the Gospel in various locations at different times, as they were summoned by God either directly (vision of Peter) or through the people in keeping with their needs.
The first task confronting the apostles following Jesus ascension into heaven (Acts 1:20-23) was the selection of a person to fill the vacancy left by Judas. In words from Psalm 109:8 [Septuagint, 108:8] the apostle Peter declares, His office let another take (20). Peter lists two criteria (22) for the individual who would take Judass place: (1) he must have been present from the beginning of Jesus ministry; and (2) he must have been a witness of the resurrection. The community puts forward a short list of two names: Joseph, called Barsabbas, and Matthias. The disciples call upon God who knows the hearts of all and then cast their lots as a mechanism for determining Gods choicea practice that had been traditional in Judaism5 and present in the Old Testament (1 Chr 25:8f.; 26:13f.).6 Matthias becomes the first person selected for the work of the Gospel in the Book of Acts. He was then counted in7 with the other eleven disciples. His selection as an apostle was not merely a human decision.
The selection of seven men (Acts 6:1-6) to assist the apostles describes the emergence of a new group of devoted Christians leading to an increase in the number of believers. Although their first task of providing for the poor in the community was administrative, they also turned out to be prophetic preachers. In fact, they are portrayed as prophets who continue the work of the twelve: they are filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, they preach Gods word, they work signs and wonders among the people. 8 Stephen disputes with the Hellenistic Jews in Jerusalem. Philip preaches in Samaria and Judea, where he catechized and baptizedtasks entrusted to the original disciples. How were the seven selected? The twelve first summoned the assembly of disciples and told them to pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom(Acts 6:3). The word translated of good repute (martyroumenos) in this verse means to have ones actions or character attested by others (cf. Lk 4:22; Acts 10:22; 16:2; 22:12; 1 Tim 5:10; and 3 Jn 12). The disciples then prayed and laid their hands on the seven, a practice by which they signal the transfer of authority.9 Lukes account may well embody the method of appointing ministers that was familiar to Luke himself: popular choice, approval by those already ministers, and the laying on of hands. He would think this a good pattern to follow the pattern that must have been followed in the past.10
Paul was called into service directly by Jesus, as was perhaps also James, the brother of Jesus (1 Cor 15:7-8). The selection of Paul was exceptional,because he was called as an apostle before Ananias baptized him, laid hands on him, and prayed (Acts 9:1-19). Paul received a thorough training prior to embarking on his missionary and apostolic work.
He may very well have served as a pastor, perhaps in Arabia (Gal 1:17), before Barnabas found him in Tarsus and brought him to work in the church at Antioch (Acts 11:25-26). Together they delivered to Judea a monetary collection for the poor (Acts 11:27-30).
After delivering the collection to the needy in Judea, Paul and Barnabas are back at work in Antioch and thoroughly involved in the life of the local Antiochean community where they labored, prayed, and fasted for the next year (Acts 13).11 The Holy Spirit then calls for Paul and Barnabas to be set aside for mission work in what is now Turkey. The congregation fasted, prayed (cf. Lk 2:37; 5:33; Acts 14:23), and then laid hands on them (Acts 13:3). One scholar suggests that this is not to be identified with a rabbinic ordination, but it is more generally an installation by which a man is placed in a particular sphere of service that differs in some respects from that previously occupied.12
At the end of the first missionary journey, Paul and Barnabas revisited the churches that they had established (Acts 14:21-23), strengthening the disciples and exhorting them to remain faithful. They also appointed elders in every church. The word used for appointed in Acts 14:23 is a participial form of cheirotoneo.13 The verb cheirotoneo means, literally, to extend or stretch out the hand.14 The critical question here is this: who does the appointing or selecting? The context would indicate that Paul and Barnabas did the selecting or choosing, thereby appointing the presbyters for the churches in Pisidia and Lycaonia. New Testament scholar C. K. Barrett contends that this was, no doubt, a kind of ordination, in that it gave some Christians a special kind of responsibility and service; cf. 6:6; 13:1-3; 20:17, 28.15
Once again the combination fasting and prayer accompanies the appointment, as was the case with the appointment of Paul and Barnabas in Acts 13:2-3. They are presented to the Lord. The verb paratith¯emi in this passage (14:23) carries the sense of presenting to another for safekeeping, that is, to entrust. So, the new ministers are presented or entrusted to the Lord for safekeeping.16
St. Pauls usual practice must have been to appoint ministers in the churches that he had established. He speaks of the Ephesian elders or bishops as having been appointed by the Holy Spirit (Acts 20:28). This suggests that they were placed into their offices by the same rite or process used for appointing elders in Antioch (Acts 14) and at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15:2, 22, 25). In Acts 15:22 Luke reports that it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.
Paul makes reference to the call of ministers in all of his epistles, and especially in the greetings where as an apostle he lists himself with Timothy and Silas who share in his ministry (Phil 1:1; 2 Cor 1:1; Col 1:1; 1 Thess 1:1; 2 Thess 1:1; cf. 1 Cor 1:1). Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus) primarily to give instructions regarding the ministry and its functions, and eligibility for service in this office in the post-apostolic period. He gave to Titus (1:5) the task of appointing ministers to churches that he had establisheda responsibility that he often assigned to his coworkers (2 Tim 2:2; 1 Tim 5:21; cf. 2 Cor 8:16-19). It seems as if the apostles and their successors (such as Titus and Timothy) were more concerned with the qualifications of the candidates for the ministry than they were with setting down a once-and-for-all procedure for selecting them. Paul and his assistants took the initiative in selecting candidates and the churches testified to their character. In this way, the whole churchpastors and people was involved in the selection of candidates for the ministry and guarded against those who would usurp the office.

[Faith]

Odessa

Уважаемая Faith, пастор это пастор, учитель это учитель, апостол это апостол, и священник это священник. Все же они являются служителями. Теперь когда мы разобрались с обычным здравым смыслом, дайте мне определение священника по Библии. Дам вам подсказку: искать нужно в Ветхом Завете. Плюс ещё одну вам дам (только потому что я сегодня такой добрый ), священниками могли быть только потомки Аарона. А ваш пастор является потомкам Аарона?

Тогда скажите, чем отличается пастор от священника и от апостола.
Вы как-то странно слово священник понимаете - не по-русски. Католический священник или православный - потомок Аарона? Или он не священник вообще?

Вообще бы очень хотелось от Вас взаимности
Если уж спрашиваете меня места из Библии, то хотелось бы от Вас тоже подкрепление из Нового Завета.

Роман Видоняк
А что в Торонто есть такое справочное бюро?! Можно номерок

[Odessa]

Faith, ну зачем вы меня сном травите!?! Я пять раз заснул пока всё не прочитал и всё было бестолку. Что там вы нашли о священниках?

Тогда скажите, чем отличается пастор от священника и от апостола.

Если хотите то я вам конечно скажу разницу. Только сначала вы мне скажите кто такой священник как Бог это определил а не так как вам кажется.

Католический священник или православный - потомок Аарона? Или он не священник вообще?

По Библии он не священник, да и священники сегодня больше не нужны. А те католики и православные только носят одно название «священник».

Вообще бы очень хотелось от Вас взаимности

Я всегда её всем раздаю, улыбающемся улыбку , а носатым в нос, или очкарикам в очкарю

Если уж спрашиваете меня места из Библии, то хотелось бы от Вас тоже подкрепление из Нового Завета.

Я как джентльмен уступаю вам первое место, так что не медлите...

[Ольгерт]

Павел называл всех евангелистов - СВященниками, говоря, что Он совершает "священнодействие" евангелия.

[Odessa]

Павел был потомок Аарона? Все евангелисты - потомки Аарона? Может быть вам нужно воспользоваться "назидаемой" родословией?

[Faith]

Odessa

По Библии он не священник, да и священники сегодня больше не нужны. А те католики и православные только носят одно название «священник».

Носят название сейчас и есть -"называются ". В русском языке слово сможет иметь многожество значений.

Толково-словообразовательный
СВЯЩЕННИК м.
1. Служитель культа православной церкви, по сану средний между дьяконом и епископом; иерей.
2. Любой служитель культа.

Словарь синонимов
Священник, иерей, поп, отец, пастырь, пресвитер, батюшка, служитель алтаря. Наш университетский батюшка. Ср. Духовенство.
См. духовенство

[Odessa]

Faith, я ведь не спорю тут называються ли священники в ПЦ священниками или нет. Я говорю что их священство ничего общего не имеет с тем священством которое Бог заповедовал. У них своё священство, а ВЗ своё. Вот и всё. Мне абсолютно всё равно как они себя называют, лишь бы понты не делали.

[Ольгерт]

Может быть вам нужно воспользоваться "назидаемой" родословией?

Христос не был к сожалению из колена Аароново, так и что назвать Его Первосвященником - неправильно? Лишь потому что кто-то не только родословией не назидается, а еще и не знает все связанное с ней?

[Андрей]

Ольгерт, Мария, мать Иисуса была из колена Ааронова - про Елизавету, мать Иоанна Крестителя, жену священника Захарии из колена Ааронова, написано, что она родственница Марии. Хотя формально (по мужу) она была из колена Иудина.

[Odessa]

Ольгерт, меньше родословий читайте а больше послание к Евреям. Там всё об Иисусе разжёвываеться и перевариваеться....прямо как молочко для малютек