Иаков и Рахиль: отчего заплакал Иаков?

[Костя Ткаченко]

Orly, большое спасибо за эту тему. Ты действительно, как женщина, почувствовала в этой истории что-то сокровенное, что прямо не написано.

Мы он этом в наших церквях поём песню, которая стоит самым первым номером в Сворнике Духовных Песен:

Слушайте повесть любви в простоте,
Слушайте дивный рассказ;
Бог нас навеки простил во Христе,
Бог нас от гибели спас.

Спасибо ещё раз.

[Костя Ткаченко]

Вот хорошое дополнение по теме в теме "3-й виток в спирали Жизни или Как золото может быть прозрачным?"

В конце Деяний апостолов говорится, что в Риме Павел проповедовал иудеям о Христе из Моисея и пророков. Я вот часто задумывался по теме того, а какие места из Моисеевых книг приводил Павел. И я уверен, что именно вот ту историю в первую очередь.

Я думаю, что человек как раз состоялся именно в этом самом союзе мужчины у женщины. И отличие из от животных, которые перед этим проходили все перед Адамом чтобы он их назвал своими именами в том, что с Евой у него появилось потомство именно от того, что он ПОЗНАЛ Еву, а не совокупился с ней, как это обычно делается у животных.

И именно в том, что Иаков все эти годи жил и работал рядом со своей невестой и есть смысл ПОЗНАНИЯ им Рахили.

[scb]

Писание - не цирк.

Дмитрий,
Конечно писания не цирк. За нечто ярким там нет реальности - бутафория.
А вот Любовь в Библии весьма реальна. И заканчивается брачной вечерией.
Так что Книгой о *любвной истории* ее назвать можно.
BTW уверен что Писание для вас НЕ скучно

Что это доказывает? Да, эмоции от того, что он завершил путь, нашел родственников, так переполняли его, что он заплакал при встрече и отвалил камень. Ну, и поцеловал кузину. Все гениальное просто. Все здесь лежит на поверхности.

Давайте посмотрим что это все:
Во-первых востановим последовательность - мне кажется она здесь очень важна и вообще говоря странная.
- Иакову указывают на Рахиль.
- Рахиль с овцами подходит к Иакову. (кстати Рахиль - тоже овца)
- Иаков (вместо поприведствовать) заботится о ее овцах
- И только когда овцы напояны Иаков целует Рахиаль и плачет.
Не кажется ли вам что если мы говорим просто о трудном пути, родствениках и эмоциях, то обычно сначала поцелуй, а затем все остальное.

Во-вторых, если бы было все так просто, то и звучало бы в Библии примерно, как вы сказали. - Увидел, поцеловал, заплакал, пошли к дяде.
Однако в этом отрывке слишком много интересных деталей, мы же не можем сказать что они приведены здесь совершено зря.
Зачем например столько подробностей о камне, овцах и пастухах?

[Костя Ткаченко]

...
если бы было все так просто, то и звучало бы в Библии примерно, как вы сказали ...

Я тоже с этим согласен. В Библии очень много случаев описаны так, как это происходит у людей, НО (!!!) написано немного необычно, как у людей обычно не происходит. В этом то и смысл написания Священного Писания, что через НЕГО нам людям ЧТО-ТО сказано на ЧТО мы должны обратить внимание.

В этом и заключается бодрствование разума, когда слушая или читая чей-то рассказ обращаешь внимание, как и каким методом он передаётся. Это как раз касается очень и очень многих библейских историй начиная и с «сотворения мира» и с «всемирного потопа» и многое другое включая, конечно, и этот рассказ встречи Иакова и Рахили.

читающий да разумеет
Если кто имеет уши слышать, да слышит!

[timur123456789]

На Английском есть на эту тему инфа.

AC 3791. Verses 9-11. While he was yet speaking with them, Rachel came with the flock which was her fathers, for she was a shepherdess. And it came to pass when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mothers brother, and the flock of Laban his mothers brother, that Jacob came near, and rolled the stone from the wells mouth, and watered the flock of Laban his mothers brother. And Jacob kissed Rachel, and If led up his voice and wept. "While he was yet speaking with them," signifies thought on that occasion; "Rachel came with the flock," signifies the affection of the interior truth which is of the church and of doctrine; "which was her fathers," signifies from good in respect to origin; "for she was a shepherdess," signifies that the affection of interior truth teaches what is in the Word; "and it came to pass when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mothers brother," signifies the acknowledgment of the affection of that truth in regard to its origin; "and the flock of Laban his mothers brother," signifies the church and the doctrine therefrom; "that Jacob came near, and rolled the stone from the wells mouth," signifies that the Lord from natural good has opened the Word as to its interiors; "and watered the flock of Laban his mothers brother," signifies instruction; "and Jacob kissed Rachel," signifies love toward interior truths; "and lifted up his voice and wept," signifies the ardor of love.
AC 3792. While he was yet speaking with them. That this signifies thought on that occasion, is evident from the signification in the historicals of the Word of "to speak," as being to think (n. 2271, 2287, 2619). That it signified thought on that occasion is manifest, because at the very time when he was speaking with them, or what is the same thing, "while he was yet speaking with them," Rachel came.
AC 3793. Rachel came with the flock. That this signifies the affection of the interior truth which is of the church and of doctrine, is evident from the representation of Rachel, as being the affection of interior truth; and from the signification of a "flock," as being the church and also doctrine (n. 3767, 3768, 3783). That it may be known how the case is with the representation of Rachel as being the affection of interior truth, and of Leah as being the affection of exterior truth, it shall be briefly stated that the natural which is represented by Jacob consists of good and truth, and that in this natural, as in all things of man and of universal nature in general and particular there must be the marriage of good and truth. Without this marriage nothing is produced-all production and all effect being therefrom. This marriage of good and truth however does not exist in mans natural when he is born, because man alone is not born into Divine order; he does indeed possess the good of innocence and of charity, which in his earliest infancy flows in from the Lord, but there is no truth with which this good may be coupled. As he advances in years, this good which in infancy had been insinuated into him by the Lord is drawn in toward the interiors, and is there kept by the Lord, in order that it may temper the states of life which he afterwards puts on. This is the reason why without the good of his infancy and first childhood man would be worse and more fierce than any wild beast. When this good of infancy is being drawn in, evil comes in its place and enters into mans natural, and with this evil falsity couples itself, and there takes place in the man the conjunction, and as it were the marriage, of evil and falsity. In order therefore that man may be saved, he must be regenerated, and evil must be removed, and good from the Lord insinuated, and according to the good which he receives, truth is insinuated into him, for the purpose of effecting the coupling, or as it were the marriage of good and truth.
[2] These are the things represented by Jacob, and by his two wives, Rachel and Leah. Jacob therefore now puts on the representation of the good of the natural, and Rachel the representation of truth; but as all the conjunction of truth with good is wrought by means of affection, it is the affection of truth to be coupled with good that is represented by Rachel. Moreover in the natural, as in the rational, there is an interior and an exterior; Rachel representing the affection of interior truth, and Leah the affection of exterior truth. Laban, who is their father, represents the good of a common stock, but the Collateral good, as before stated; which good is that which in a collateral line corresponds to the truth of the rational, which is signified by "Rebekah" (n. 3012, 3013, 3077). Hence the daughters from this good represent the affections in the natural, for these are as daughters from this good as from a father. And as these affections are to be coupled with natural good, they represent the affections of truth; the one the affection of interior truth, and the other the affection of exterior truth.
[3] As regards the regeneration of man in respect to his natural, the case is altogether the same as it is with Jacob and the two daughters of Laban, Rachel and Leah; and therefore whoever is able to see and apprehend the Word here according to its internal sense, sees this arcanum disclosed to him. But no one can see this except the man who is in good and truth. What ever perception others may have of things therein relating to moral and civic life, and however intelligent they may thereby appear, still they can see nothing of this nature so as to acknowledge it; for they do not know what good and truth are, but suppose evil to be good and falsity to be truth; and therefore the moment that good is mentioned, the idea of evil is presented; and when truth is mentioned, the idea of falsity; consequently they perceive nothing of these contents of the internal sense, but as soon as they hear them darkness appears and extinguishes the light.
AC 3794. Which was her fathers. That this signifies from good in respect to origin, is evident from the representation of Laban, who here is the "father," as being the collateral good of a common stock (n. 3612, 3665, 3778); and also from the signification of "father," as being good (n. 3703).
AC 3795. For she was a shepherdess (or, "she was one who feeds.") That this signifies that the affection of interior truth teaches what is in the Word, is evident from the signification of a "shepherd," or one that feeds the flock, as being one who leads and teaches (n. 343); and from the representation of Rachel, who in the present case is "she," as being the affection of interior truth (n. 3793). The reason this teaching is said to be from the Word is that she came to the well with the flock; and that the "well" signifies the Word may be seen above (n. 3765). Moreover it is the affection of interior truth which teaches; for from this affection the church is a church, and a shepherd or pastor is a pastor, The reason why in the Word a" shepherd," and "one that feeds" signifies those who lead and teach, is that a "flock" signifies those who are led and taught, consequently churches, and also doctrines of the church (n. 3767, 3768, 3783). That a "shepherd" and a "flock" have such a signification is well known in the Christian world, for so they who teach and they who learn are called, and therefore it is needless to confirm this from the Word.
AC 3796. And it came to pass, when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mothers brother. That this signifies the acknowledgment of the affection of that truth in regard to its origin, is evident from the signification of "seeing," as here being to acknowledge, as is evident from the series or connection; and from the representation of Rachel, as being the affection of interior truth (n. 3793). "The daughter of Laban his mothers brother" implies its origin, namely, that it was from collateral good, which was joined in brotherhood with the rational truth represented by Rebekah, the mother of Jacob.
[2] As regards the affections of truth and of good the case is this: The genuine affections of truth and of good which are perceived by man are all from a Divine origin, because from the Lord; but on the way, as they descend, they diverge into various and diverse streams, and there form for themselves new origins; for as they flow into affections not genuine but spurious, and into the affections of evil and falsity in the man, so are they varied. In the external form these affections often present themselves like the genuine ones; but in the internal form they are of this spurious character. The sole characteristic from which they are known is their end; if as regards their end they are for the sake of self or the world, then these affections are not genuine; but if as regards their end they are for the sake of the good of the neighbor, the good of societies, the good of our country, and especially if for the good of the church and the good of the Lords kingdom, then they are genuine, because in this case they are for the sake of the Lord, inasmuch as the Lord is in these goods.
[3] It is therefore the part of a wise man to know the ends that are in him. Sometimes it appears as if his ends were for self when yet they are not so; for it is the nature of man to reflect upon himself in everything, and this from custom and habit. But if anyone desires to know the ends that are within him, let him merely pay attention to the delight he perceives in himself from the praise and glory of self, and to the delight he perceives from use separate from self; if he perceives this latter delight, he is in genuine affection. He must also pay attention to the various states in which he is, for the states themselves very much vary the perception. A man can explore these things in himself, but not in others; for the ends of each mans affection are known to the Lord alone. This is the reason why the Lord said:--
Judge not, that ye be not judged; condemn not, that ye be not condemned (Luke 6:37);
for a thousand persons may appear to be in a like affection in respect to truth and good, and yet everyone of them be in an affection unlike in respect to origin, that is, in respect to end.
[4] That the end determines the quality of the affection, that is to say, whether it is genuine, spurious, or false, is because a mans end is his very life; for a man has that for his end which is of his life, or what is the same, of his love. then the good of his neighbor, the general good, the good of the church and of the Lords kingdom, is the end, then as to his soul the man is in the Lords kingdom, thus in the Lord; for the Lords kingdom is nothing else than a kingdom of ends and uses for the good of the human race (n. 3645). The angels themselves who are with man are solely in his ends. In so far as a man is in such an end as that in which is the Lords kingdom, so far the angels are delighted with him, and conjoin themselves with him as with a brother; but in so far as a man is in the end of self, so far the angels retire, and evil spirits from hell draw near, for there reigns in hell no other end than this; from all of which we can see how important it is to explore and know from what origin the affections are, and this can be known solely from the end.

[timur123456789]

AC 3797. And the flock of Laban his mothers brother. That this signifies the church and the doctrine therefrom, is evident from the signification of a "flock," as being the church and doctrine (n. 3767, 3768, 3783). The reason why Laban is here called "his mothers brother," is that thereby is likewise signified an acknowledgment in respect to the origin, as stated just above.
AC 3798. That Jacob came near, and rolled the stone from the wells mouth. That this signifies that the Lord from natural good uncovered the Word as to things interior, is evident from the representation of Jacob, as being the Lords Divine natural, as before shown, here, in respect to the good therein; and from the signification of "rolling the stone from the wells mouth," as being to uncover the Word in respect to its interiors (n. 3769, 3771, 3773, 3789). The reason why the supreme internal sense here is that the Lord from natural good uncovered the Word as to its interiors, is that Jacob here represents good in the natural; for Jacob puts on the representation of good, because now truth was to be adjoined thereto by means of the affection which Rachel represents (n. 3775, 3793); and because it is from good that the Word is uncovered in respect to its interiors (n. 3773). That it is from good that the Word is uncovered is very manifest, because it is from the love in which each man is that he sees the things which are of that love, and that which he sees he calls truths, because they are in agreement with that love. There is in each mans love the light of his life, for love is like a flame from which light issues such therefore as is the love or flame, such is the mans light of truth. They who are in the love of good can see that which is of this love, consequently the truths that are in the Word, and this in accordance with the amount and the quality of their love of good; for in this case light or intelligence flows in from heaven, that is, through heaven from the Lord. For this reason it is that as before said no one can see and acknowledge the interiors of the Word unless he is in good as to life.
AC 3799. And watered the flock of Laban his mothers brother. That this signifies instruction, is evident from the signification of "watering the flock," as being instruction (n. 3772). The reason why Laban is here a third time called "his mothers brother," is that the origin is pointed out from which came the flock and Rachel, that is to say, from which come the doctrine and the affection of interior truth.
AC 3800. And Jacob kissed Rachel. That this signifies love toward interior truths, is evident from the signification of" kissing," as being unition and conjunction from affection (n. 3573, 3574), consequently love, because regarded in itself love is unition and conjunction from affection; and from the representation of Rachel, as being the affection of interior truth (n. 3793). Hence it is evident that by "Jacob kissed Rachel," is signified love toward interior truths.
AC 3801. And lifted up his voice and wept. That this signifies the ardor of love, is evident from the signification of "lifting up the voice and weeping," as being the ardor of love; for weeping belongs to sorrow, and also to love, and is the highest degree of each of them.

[S.KARA]

Берите выше...

Харан,как много ты увлекал ищющих Бога,даже дед Иакова оставил все и пошел с отцом своим Фарой к тебе ,ищя Всевышнего....,а ты Иаков возрыдал в Духе-возвысил голос увидев Рахиль,о Рахиль как велико потомство твое,что досих пор мир побивает твоих МЛАДЕНЦЕВ???????

[Двора]

Увидев такое можно возрыдать.
Нам, оглядываяь назад и всматриваясь вперед от ожидаемого,
а Иакову когда открылась вся картина пути своего потомства.

[S.KARA]

не имею в виду евреев ,понятно весь мир стенает сейчас от них но библия не национальная книга ,а духовная оснавная масса их уже дети дьявола..

[Двора]

Вы что, с телефона посылаете сообщения?
Они не раскрыты, обрывки мыслей.
Слово Божие вверено Иудеям, от них спасение миру по слову Апостолов рождается наша вера и мы входим в единство с Богом только благодаря Его Духу Который обещан Богом Авраама Йицхака и Иакова.
Все кто из язычников входит в дом Божий присоеденяются к избранному народу, прививаются к природной маслине.
Другого пути нет.

[ДмитрийВладимир]

До такой степени, что аж сразу поцеловал девушку?

Приветсвуют так целованием.